Rules Amendment

Subject: Rules Amendment 2009-07-21, 13:10

The Fightercontrol Rules of the forum have been changed slightly to include a new rule which will be implemented immediately.
This rule is No.11 and highlighted in red which means it will be strictly adhered too and for all boards.

Location : Ramsey, Huntingdon Spotter Watch Member : no

i believe this rule shoud not be here this is not fair on those that have trouble spelling and knowing where to put grammer into their sentances and also havent been taught very well. There is alot of people in the world that could join that have these problems that would feel that they should not post and would be scared to post because of this rule.

The older generation have had in most case's a better education. for some of us younger ones we havent been so lucky.

i see this a as a discrimination agianst people that have Dyslexia and other problems with reading/writing.

i for one have been at the raw end once or twice on this site in the past, now this opens the flood gates.

please reconcider this rule.

Subject: Re: Rules Amendment 2009-07-21, 17:51

Aileron,

I suspect the new rule isn't as draconian as you might think.

Deliberate bad grammar is a pet hate of mine. It's got nothing to do with a poor education, it's about making a effort, if only for the courtesy of the reader. I don't for one minute believe Rich or any of the other administrators/moderators are going to red-line anyone for making mistakes, we all make them. I'd imagine it's more to do with writing clearly for others to understand.

tpying reallybadly cos u cant be bovered to spl chk,or puncturuate is no xcuse.i seeing this centance cuvered in red nderlines as i'm tipng.
.

Location : Ramsey, Huntingdon Spotter Watch Member : no

Then maybe it should be made more clear. sorry it scares me half to death that im about to get told off for not using the right word, punctuation, capital letters and full stops where needed. the rule needs to made as not to scare people but to inform right and wrong.

you last sentance was easliy read as our brians can put things the right way round. but i can see what is ment by the rule. but i fear it will scare people to not post.

Subject: Re: Rules Amendment 2009-07-21, 18:10

The new rule and my comments are obviously not aimed at dyslexics. Although, with respect, I am puzzled why people with reading and writing difficulties don't use a spell checker? As I pointed out, FC's one is active as you're typing.

Location : N E Jockistan Spotter Watch Member : No

I'm with Hillwalker on this. Far too many people of Aileron's generation are not lacking to ability to spell or to use correct grammar, they are just lacking the inclination. One of the biggest barriers to using proper English these days is the incessant use of "texting" or "Geek-speak", and not the lack of education.

Whilst I appreciate that Dyslexia is a problem for a minority, it is also used as an excuse by many.

Poor spelling and grammar is clearly a problem, but that aside we have had a number of posts lately which have been totally incoherent.

The emphasis on Rule 11 is not discrimination against a minority, it is for the benefit of the majority. There is an online spell checker on FC (although I haven't noticed it), if you want to fully check your spelling you can use the built in Google spell-checker or perhaps something like ieSpell which I use all the time.

Please don't see this as discrimination, rather as a way of tidying up FC and making it better for all.

Location : Ramsey, Huntingdon Spotter Watch Member : no

FC online spell checker???? never seen this feature nor have i ever been able to use it. Guidance please?

Quote :: 11 - Fightercontrol wishes to remind members that they must use correct grammar and in no way short-hand 'text speak'.

This is telling us we must do it!

It does not say please try and do this.

I am in no way defending the people that just cant be bothered to adhere to this rule just the ones that genuinly have problems.

I like the idea of trying to tidy up FC a bit and i am all for it.

Subject: Re: Rules Amendment 2009-07-22, 01:24

Morning Aileron,

As you type your message in FC's message box, if you make a spelling mistake FC's in-built spell checker will underline the offending word. Like all spell checkers it won't recognise most place names such as Coningsby or Leuchars. It really hates lower cased i, as do I.
.

Location : N E Jockistan Spotter Watch Member : No

Hello Aileron.

You may not have noticed, but you seem to be making an effort to comply with Rule 11 despite your protestations. Apart from the odd lower case "i", your posts on this thread seem fine to me.

Yes, I am a bit of a pedant when it comes to correct English usage, but you are by no means the worst offender here. Clearly you can comply with Rule 11 as you have shown on this thread even if you are unaware of it, so why all the fuss.

Rather than oppose the enforcement of Rule 11, why not at least give it a fair chance? Remember you are using FC as a privilege and not by right. Abiding by the rules of FC is no different to sticking to posted rules at an air display, sporting event, etc., etc. It's interesting that no-one else has complained.

Subject: Re: Rules Amendment 2009-07-22, 03:08

HighlandSniper wrote:: Hello Aileron.
You may not have noticed, but you seem to be making an effort to comply with Rule 11 despite your protestations. Apart from the odd lower case "i", your posts on this thread seem fine to me.

I noticed that too, it seems to be working. Thanks Aileron.

If a dyslexic person can do it, what excuse do other people have, other than laziness?

HighlandSniper wrote:: It's interesting that no-one else has complained.

Give it time.....
.

Admin Location : Birmingham B17

Aileron

I would ask you not to get nervous or feel intimidated by the ruling.As i have said to you at length i will help when i can but in the same token you must help yourself.

I have a Collins dictionary right next to me.And i use the on line Oxford dictionary.

So do not worry i for one will not judge you but help you.But you must help me as well.

Thanks Jim.

Location : Immingham Spotter Watch Member : yes

Hi Jim,
Why not put a spell check on the forum might solve most of the problem about bad grammer
Just a thought?

Terry

Location : Southend Spotter Watch Member : No

Firefox usually underlines things in Red if you spell them wrong.

Are people just deliberately spelling things wrong. I can't help my Grammar you'll have to blame my old English Teachers

Location : N E Jockistan Spotter Watch Member : No

There are several free spell-checkers which can be downloaded (I use ieSpell as mentioned above) plus some browsers have them built in.

The Google Toolbar has its own spell checker, as does the new Safari browser.

Nobody's asking FC members to produce Oxford University standard PhD theses, just coherent posts.

Let's get this in perspective, it's all about improving the quality of our favourite military aviation forum.

Subject: Re: Rules Amendment 2009-07-22, 05:31

Aileron (and others)...

The rule has been implemented because too many members are taking the mickey with their grammar and spelling and to say the least, it is winding lots of members up.
The FC team do take into account that some members do have dyslexia and other problems reading and writing (together with other educational issues) and so those being genuine about their abilities will be overlooked and of course helped by the team members (and i hope other members). All they need to do is send a PM to one of the team and it will be sorted.

Let me make some points clear.
Things like what we all do at times, like can't be bothered to put an apostrophe between the 'n' and 't' on "Can't" etc is not what we are on about here. Things like "Cant" can be overlooked. So can other typo's.
It is typing like that stated in the rule (text type) and other major spelling/punctuation issues whereby a members post is hard to read and takes several run throughs just to get what a member is trying to get across in his/her message.
The internet has lots of dictionaries. You only even have to type a word within a search engine like Google and it will spell it correctly for you!

In the past few weeks the team has been contacted several times by other members wishing something like this would be sorted out. The team also were pushing for this due to the amount of moderation needed going through peoples posts and trying to re-type them in a more readable fashion. Some posts in the last couple of weeks have been so unintelligible that we have had them flagged up to the Mods and not even we have managed to read what was being put in the messages.
If a person posts messages whereby other members find it extremely difficult to read then we are all buggered. It has to be re-done, moderated or a polite PM to the originator is sent (with half the time, a snotty message received back).
There are many ways to get the grammar sorted before you press the SEND button. A little common sense and thinking does the trick. Plus free dictionaries on the internet work fine too.

Let me also point out that other major forums have this rule already and i don't see anyone not posting on those...

The rules below state:

11 - Fightercontrol wishes to remind members that they must use correct grammar and in no way short-hand 'text speak'.

Mobile Text typing is pure laziness and is not welcome on this forum. It is very annoying to other members who put an effort in to making sure their posts are correct and people can read them properly.

If a member does have learning difficulties then so be it, a polite reply or post to the Team is all that is needed to let the Team know.<<<< Please read this line.
However we will not accept that excuse regarding 'text type' as this is simply childish and lazy.

For those members who do not know what 'text type' is, an example can be seen below:-

"Hi yuu, wuu2."... or "I reli ned 2 go bk 2 skwl 2 lrn hw 2 reed or wrte nd b beta at postn msgs"

Your post will be immediately removed if the team see any member posting text type in their message. And a friendly reminder for those who do not use punctuation.

Many members can have a "typo" or two and so this is will be overlooked however a continuous lack of grammar and punctuation will be seen as a rule break and will be acted upon. <<<< Please read this line.

It's not a difficult rule to adhere too. Those with difficulties just need to let the team members know. Simple as that. We do know some members have not had the education others have had, you simply cannot argue that the fact is, the internet has all the resources people need to type out a message so other members can read it.

Those who post jibberish (and some are just that) will have their posts removed with a PM sent to remind them why.

All we ask for, is to type in a manner where other members can understand what is being said. Little mistakes won't matter.

Location : Near RAF Aldergrove

I cannot believe that rules like this are actually needed on an internet forum. I know people occasionally type in txt speak but a PM should do the trick. It all seems a bit OTT to stick up rules like this but if the feeling of power and authority over the members is a turn on then so be it! Just my 2c.

Location : Naaarwich Spotter Watch Member : No

I'm all for this, yes there are people who have dyslexia which is unfortunate and errors are excusable and will happen but I agree with the mods there are some posters on here who take the mick. This has always been one of my bugbears and I refuse in any walk of life to use mobile phone speak as it's lazy, the day will come soon when dictionary's have the mobile phone spelling next to the word. As for spelling, I know Flaps used to make a big issue of it and rightly too, I think all they are asking for is a bit of care and attention and everyone will be happy, after all what were English lessons for!!!!!

Cheers,

Moderator Location : In a layby

ringo747 wrote:: I cannot believe that rules like this are actually needed on an internet forum. I know people occasionally type in txt speak but a PM should do the trick.

Its nothing to do with "feeling power" Ringo there has been members who have politely been told to think before they click send several times the last week or so. They either choose to ignore the pm or just carry on regardless.

As Razor has pointed out we have received several complaints, and at times, even struggled to understand what some members have posted ourselves.

Subject: Re: Rules Amendment 2009-07-22, 06:14

Well that's just it, a polite PM does not do the trick at times. Believe me, we have tried!
I really cannot see any problem in this rule. Other forums including UKAR have a similar rule and everything is running fine with members adhering to it, as are other forums.

If you think we get turned on by asking members to punctuate or spell (or atleast make a message readable) then you can think again. What an absurd thing to say!
However just a reminder... the team do run this forum and what we set as rules will be adhered too for the benefit of all members.

What i see here is an overhype of the rules. People getting their knickers in a twist over basically nothing.
Why can't members just sit back and relax and type properly (those who don't have educational problem and dyslexia) and then we wouldn't have our inbox full of people complaining about other members posts because they have trouble reading them.
The amount of complaints the Team have had over the last few weeks regarding members postings is just ridiculous. So obviously a majority of the members are not happy that they have to spend time reading through one post just to get the jist of what is going on.

It has come down to the point where we are discussing things like this in the mods section every bloody day just to keep members happy....with a minority as always complaining about everything the team does.

This rule is a rule, and members will abide by it. It's not hard to follow, like the other rules which have been set. And in 2009 it is a perfectly valid rule to have on a large forum with hundreds of posts each day and it's not much to ask for in todays society for members to type properly and have some respect for others who have to trawl through EVERY message posted on this forum to see if it's okay or not.
It gets tedious and annoying.

It's not much of a big deal is it?
If you read through my last post, we only see issues with text type and basically disregard for the English language not the usual typos and mistakes made. For those who do have problems with spelling etc, the resources are there to help as are WE as usual.

WE ARE NOT seeking to have a forum where everyones post will need to be perfect. But atleast post something people can read. This is all we are looking for.

Those who are directly going against this rule really do not understand what we are outlining here (and explained now, several times).

How would you rather see peoples messages?
Like this:- Hii, mi m8 wnt dwn te rd 2 gt sme fd

or

Hi, my matewent downthe rosd to geyt some food

or

Hi, my mate went down the road to get some food

So... what are you arguing over? What looks more professional? What is easier to read? What would stop members continuously PM'ing the Admin and Mods about other members posts?

Really no need for any disagreements of this rule...

Location : Elgin Spotter Watch Member :

I like the rule as long that 'txt spk' is banned because I hate it! That's the great thing about predictive text on phones nowadays, I used to use 'txt spk' to death but it got so bad it was impossible to read and since about a year ago I reverted back to using proper English. Most of the reasoning was because I have never been a student who finds English (the subject) at school easy and punctuation and grammar have been a constant struggle in the past, a little less now.
Aileron, I totally appreciate you don't find it easy to spell correctly as easy as others do, but it's your effort and willing to try and follow the rule that makes me appreciate your effort and as others have previously said, it's the people who don't bother are the incriminating ones.

Macc

Location : Swindon Spotter Watch Member : no

I believe this to be a good rule, It takes me ten times longer to decode a "text speak" message than it does to read a properly typed message.

I also do not think, the occaisional typo or error would be frowned upon to deeply.

Location : Grimsby Spotter Watch Member : No

Thank god I went to school in an era when proper grammer was the norm. Text speak is worming it's way into everything. My 17 year old daughter and her friends even talk in it. Big Grin

Location : Aberdeen Spotter Watch Member : No

I support the rule, text speak started due to the character limitations of text messages and it was a was a way of getting around this. There is no need for use of it on a forum without these limitations.

Grammar is not something I find too easy either but I'm still capable of posting coherently!

It's the incoherent posts that were bugging me and I suspect I know what prompted this rule amendment as some of them were truly impossible to read and frankly were devaluing the particular topic as a source of information.

Cheers

Ian

Location : North Wales Spotter Watch Member : no

I also fully support this rule, my spelling and use of grammer has never been the best, but I'm not worried that the "Grammer Police" are going to boot someone off the forum for the odd spelling mistake or misplaced apostrophe, it's the use of Text Speak thats not allowed. That's not too much to ask for is it?

Macc wrote:: Aileron, I totally appreciate you don't find it easy to spell correctly as easy as others do, but it's your effort and willing to try and follow the rule that makes me appreciate your effort and as others have previously said, it's the people who don't bother are the incriminating ones. Macc

Spot on Macc
Cheers

Location : Humberston, Grimsby Spotter Watch Member : yes

I for one am 100% in agreement with this rule, a rule that really should not be necessary, as forum members should have been following these guidelines all the time.
As for my typos, well I have a keyboard where the letters keep jumping about instead of staying where they should! That's my excuse, and i'm sticking to it! Half the words I type have typos, that's why I read it through, and correct (most of) the mistakes before sending.
However, having just typed this, and made the usual several mistakes, this so called "spellchecker" never underlined anything for me, so what's the secret, is there a spellchecker "on" button somewhere?