opinions of RIAT 2009

Moderator Location : UK Spotter Watch Member : No

Would just like to ask members to please not make their opinions too passionate. Please refrain from attacks on those you disagree with.

Location : Manchester Spotter Watch Member : No

Well i wont go into the trade stands/fairgrounds/food outlets etc etc, anyone who is a regular will know the score.....Coffee's are £ 250, the fairgrounds are noisy and the food is twice the deficit of soe third world country's...no i wont complain about them, what i will say however is just how poor the RIAT has become, just look at what didnt come that has been regular over the last few years...

No US Navy
No Coast Guard
No US Army
No Austrian
No Polish
No Australian
No Portugese
No Danish
No Chezch
No Slovenian
No Croatian
No Turkish
No Belgium

Amongst others....someone must have miffed a load of people off !!!

Location : Lincoln

I think "poor" is a relative term that depends on your expectations. Being a numbers man rather than a photographer, all I can say is:

Without wishing to get into a contest (and I am sure someone can beat me anyway) I made 5 new this year (FAB CASA, Algerian C-130, 1 Gripen, 1 Rafale, plus Hawk ZK020). As 5 was my target I was happy with my haul. Having failed to get into double figures for the last 5 years I did not expect to see any more new aircraft. You could have filled the ramp with dozens of Tornados/Belgian F-16s/etc etc and it wouldn't have made much difference to me. Sure I would have liked to have seen some stuff from other rarer places, but there you go

If you want to know why there were no Australian/Slovenian/Turkish etc I suggest you get in touch with the relevant Air Attache and ask them why they chose not to send any aircraft. In a lot of cases it is because we did not send any aircraft to their shows.

Of the other countries, Portugal, the US Army and US Navy all had aircraft booked to attend which later cancelled. Denmark did attend (C-080). I don't think Croatia has ever attended RIAT (please correct me if I'm wrong).

RIAT is actually one of the more proactive when it comes to inviting stuff. They actually go to London and meet with a lot of the relevant Air Attaches in an attempt to gain participation, and they are also quite receptive to suggestions for invites.

Andy Marden

Subject: Re: opinions of RIAT 2009 2009-07-20, 13:49

I can't believe that someone has slagged the layout of the static-display,it was the best yet and everything was very easy to photograph.Great work lads,you know who you are.

Not of the quality of the '90's displays,but VERY well parked.(Apart from the B-1B that had a fun-fair behind it !)

Location : Surrey

Flaps wrote:: I can't believe that someone has slagged the layout of the static-display,it was the best yet and everything was very easy to photograph.Great work lads,you know who you are.

Not of the quality of the '90's displays,but VERY well parked.(Apart from the B-1B that had a fun-fair behind it !)

I assume that the 'someone' you refer to is me? Well I'm sorry if I've upset your mates, but I really thought it was a bit dull and uninspired.

Location : Mid Cheshire Spotter Watch Member : Yes

I did not do 'The Macarena' Flaps (Once again , thanks for the invite) and Old Git must have had too much 'Pop' !!! Great to meet you and Mrs Git too by the way

Upside :-
Great socialising , Saturday night was great!!, Kempsford for me again next year.
Rafael
Spanish Hornet nearly breaking the sound barrier !!!
Gripens
Typhoon
Reds
757
B52 was a hoot, and what a 'chute.
The Dutch F-16 commentators pronunciation of the pilots name !!!!!! (You know if you were there!!)
I got a load of great photos

Downsides. A lot but here goes:-
Saturday....The positioning of the grand stand , much too far from the centre of the crowd line, (There was a massive gap ( A good 150 yards) of grass between us and the FRIAT stand,) Which was taken up by all and sundrie (No offence meant)
As I went in to the grandstand I was asked where I would like to sit and (As I am a bit on the large side and need a bit of leg room ,) and I told the fellow " A seat on the end of the row please , so that I can move my legs to the isle if neccessary " I got in to find I was crammed up against the wrong end and was stuck against the fence (Cutting my arm open on an eronious bit of welding!!).
The price of the food.
The price of the programme (I didn't buy one !!)
The amount of cancellations
The ignoramus's that think it's ok to stand in front of you just at that vital moment!!
The distinct lack of American participation (Air wise)

Sunday

Upsides:- As above

Downsides:-
Grandstand again, "L8 please" says I , "Sorry all the back row has gone already" came the reply , (Even though I was in much the same time as Saturday , and it was lashing down at this point!!.) How did any body get a seat on the back row (Best for photography) in double quick time??? god only knows , unless ofcourse a bit of skullduggery was involved.!! I mean come on , a whole row, yet when I was in the day previous there were plenty available.
"OK, any thing on the front row please ??" "Yes there you go sir A86"
I get in, to have some ATC cadet asking did I know where I was going? , "A86" I told him, to then be asked to produce my seat allocation ticket , regardless of the fact that I have just produced my issued and paid for ticket to enter the grandstand in the first place! this of course entailed me finding some where that wasn't an inch deep in water to put my camera gear down again, whilst I go through my pockets to find it again. It then turns out that I had put my bag on my own seat !! I then had an air display with irritating air cadets standing in front of me, whilst I am attempting to take pictures in the inclement weather that we were all suffering from!!
I know they are only doing what they are told, but why not put a sign up above the various entrances saying 'Seats 1-30 this way in 31-60 this way in etc and then have the cadets down at the bottom directing people to left or right at the top of the stairs sir/ madam. Just athought!
I also had to suffer having my eye gouged with a brolly from the ignoramus to my right. His kids not wanting to see the airdisplay and splashing everybody as they ran between puddles, constanly being a pain ( I know I wasn't born old, but my father did teach me to repect other peoples belongings and to sit there and shut up !!!

Also didn't like the other ignoramus who came and stood in front for the last 3/4 of an hor , with his brolly up!!!!!!!! blocking several peoples view, not just mine I hasten to add, Not one to start an argument .....cough cough. I moved along a few seats and was still able to see. (A couple of years back he would have had more than a flee in his ear.

Overall view:-
A lot better than last year!! But not a patch on my last RIAT (2003) and somebody else said it the atmosphere of that last visit was definately lacking.

And Benno (I got the Typhoon Spitfire fly past)

Subject: Re: opinions of RIAT 2009 2009-07-20, 14:26

Jez wrote:

Flaps wrote:: I can't believe that someone has slagged the layout of the static-display,it was the best yet and everything was very easy to photograph.Great work lads,you know who you are.

Not of the quality of the '90's displays,but VERY well parked.(Apart from the B-1B that had a fun-fair behind it !)

I assume that the 'someone' you refer to is me? Well I'm sorry if I've upset your mates, but I really thought it was a bit dull and uninspired.

I'm not talking about "dull and uninspired",all I'm saying is that most airframes were nicely parked for reasonable photos.You certainly haven't upset any of my mates.They are volunteers that are in charge of aircraft parking.How would you park them ?

Location : wickford

I can't believe myself but I almost agree with Sheff!

As I made clear before I had no intention of going to FFD but quite frankly was it any better than Waddington and Yeovilton.

Yes a few different types but one Algerian Herk doesn't make it great.

Oh and as for the Italian Typhoons not making an appearance they came ovet to CBY to do a job, the job they were built for, one of my good friends is very upset with a poster over their non apperance as he caouldn't get there to take his beloved pictures, oh well can't please them all, at least there is still Leuchars to come.

Greyghost

Location : Birmingham Spotter Watch Member : No

Andy Marden wrote:: RIAT is actually one of the more proactive when it comes to inviting stuff. They actually go to London and meet with a lot of the relevant Air Attaches in an attempt to gain participation, and they are also quite receptive to suggestions for invites.

......and they aren't the only show that does that either.

Location : bramley, leeds

My 5th IAT,my family holidays clashed this year as i normally attend the Saturday.
Having arrived home in Leeds at 1pm on Saturday after a 3hour drive from North Norfolk then swapping cars and driving another 3 and half hours to Totterdown farm i was praying for good weather and a good display?

Well double disappointment!!

The weather was shocking as we entered and the speed the que took to go through the search procedure was not good, despite there not being many people at half seven.
My self and Josh were soaked and to add insult to the soaking we saw the programme price £8.00, how do they get there prices?? (i know think of a reasonable number and double it!!).
We went to Duxford last Thursday and there programme/guide, no re word that small book was only £5.00 now that i didn't mind paying.

Sunday was a triumph as far as the organisors getting any sort of display in the air and i have to commend them for that, for those that didn't go it rained hard for long spells.
The biggest congratulations goes to those pilots who put up a spirited display in what must have been awful flying conditions Clap

The static display was i think better laid out than in previous years and despite the lack of display aircraft was better to look round and take photos.
The crews were brilliant and all willing to talk.

The flying display was ok, not the best i have seen as i think a big lack of any US stuff ie: F-16, F-15, A-10's, YF-22, B-2, or any US navy or Coastguard etc not flying was a big let down.
I know it's nice to see other foreign visitors, but with all the stuff thats going on overseas it's no surprise?

Lack of relevant trade stands was again disappointing

Next year i will defo be stopping at the farm and saving myself £100 that Sunday cost me as all the displays came right over the top of the site.

Andy and Josh
Phoenixjfc

Location : Surrey

Flaps wrote:: How would you park them ?

For starters I would try to give similar types of aircraft different backgrounds. For example, some of the US Hercs were all parked nose to tail in a straight line. This makes it easy to get a 'nice' shot, but difficult to make the shots of each aircraft noticeably different (especially for those that can only manage to tour the static once and with the sun in the same position). It's a similar story with the Dutch and Norwegian F-16s. Parking them radially or in an arc would make things and little more interesting and at least give the opportunity to get the trade stands out of the background for a few jets. Granted, it's not a new idea, but it has been utilised at previous shows with good effect in my opinion. Maybe I'm expecting too much?

Location : Essex Spotter Watch Member : Nay.

I went on Saturday and thought it was a good show - I didn't really know what was due because I cba following months of build-up over every change on the participation list. I went primarily to see the Vulcan takeoff and anything else was to be a bonus.

Flying display was very good I thought - plenty of noise, variety of fast jets and some heavies thrown into the mix which I always find to be an amazing spectacle. The 757 was my favourite item as it turned out; I thought it was excellently flown. A shame there wasn't a USAF fast jet solo like there has been in most of the time in recent years, but they were due the C-17 solo which cancelled. That would have been an impressive sight.

The new commentary team were superb too I thought; they really worked well as a team and indvidually they were all very capable too, so I enjoyed listening to them a lot. They had a style that was less 'nerdy' than a lot of airshow commentaries.

Bad points? Well, the traffic scuppered our day really. It was a nightmare getting in on Saturday, with two hours spent doing the last 3 miles or so to the gate. That meant we weren't on the showground until after flying started, so we had to skip the static entirely. For a day trip, an 8 hour flying display is too long IMO; if you get delayed like we did, it means you've either got to miss out on the flying or the static. They could probably shave an hour off of the flying by cutting back on a few of the lesser items which might make the show "do-able" in one day.

Location : Sheffield Spotter Watch Member : no

This prompts me to repeat what I've said before about RIAT's set-up. The flying display is certainly too long. I guess RIAT keep it this way as some sort of perceived value, but ultimately it is counter-productive. If the display has to be stretched-out for so long, I really don't see why some of the less-interesting (at least for us enthusiasts) items cannot be placed at the start/end of the programme. Surely, the wing walkers, civvy aero teams, warbirds and the like can be shifted to those slots so that they are still there for the general public, but free-up time for everyone else? I've mentioned this before and people's reaction is that these performers might feel insulted to be treated like "warm-up acts" but so what? They're being paid to participate, so it's up to the show organisers to dictate how they are used.

There seems to be some notion that the display programme must be varied with different types of aircraft spread throughout the day. That's a nice concept but practically-speaking it would be far better if aircraft could be grouped into sections, possibly punctuated by an aerobatic team or something like that. A solid hour (or more if necessary) of fast jets perhaps, and another hour for multi-engined types, would be the "must-see" section for the serious enthusiasts, and the rest of the day would be free to wander around the show. I guess RIAT would claim that this would be too much of an overkill with all the "serious stuff" together, but I disagree. You either want to see them or you don't, and sprinkling them over a whole day is just counter-productive. Given that we pay a serious amount of cash, I think we have a right to question whether the current set-up is ideal. Obviously, you still have the same line-up over the same length of time, but it would give spectators more of an opportunity to "shop around" and see just the types of aircraft they want to see (all of them if they like of course) without having to spend an entire day stood at the crowd line - unles you really want to of course.

The other way things could be improved is more fundamental. Clearly, most of the more interesting/exotic aircraft are now confined to the static display. Surely, it ought to be possible to have at least some of these arrive/depart during the actual show, rather than the days before and after it. This would enable spectators to see the aircraft actually fly, either by performing a simple flyby prior to landing/departing, or at least seeing it land or get airborne. This would be far preferable to seeing interesting aircraft simply stuck behind barriers and tents, traffic cones and the like. RIAT have enough ramp space to allow some of these aircraft to taxy in and out on the public side. Okay, some aircraft simply may not be able to schedule arrival/departure for the weekend, but a partial solution here would be to taxy the aircraft along the runway, perhaps as part of a "cavalcade" rather like the big runway line-up they did some years back, which was very successful. This would be a big improvement to the concept of having all the aircraft simply stuck in a static park. Okay, I can see all sorts of whines and gripes about logistics and so on, but it doesn't have to apply to all the static aircraft, just a representative group of the most unusual items. For example, the Greek F-4 (which was arguably the most interesting aircraft this year) could have arrived on the Saturday and departed on the Sunday. Failing that, it could have at least taken part in a "taxy parade" along the runway? Far better than just being sat there on the tarmac.

Doubtless RIAT would say that we can obviously pay for P&V and make extra trips before and after the show. But this goes back to their claim that they are catering for the enthusiast. If they really are serious about that claim, then they can do much more to make the actual show days a much better event for us, instead of simply leaving us to cough-up even more money and spend more time, to see all the really interesting stuff. It's slightly crazy that we've got into a situation where the really serious enthusiast is almost obliged to spend six days at Fairford now, spending a huge amount of cash, simply to get a decent view of aircraft that could all be successfully displayed over the actual weekend if more thought was put into it.

Given that the show's line-up will inevitably get smaller and less-interesting as the years go by, I think they should turn their attention to making the best use of what they do still have. But as I've said before, I don't think any radical changes will be made. While RIAT are selling all their tickets, they obviously have no reason to imagine that anything should be done any differently. The only way things can be improved is if RIAT become convinced that a growing number of people don't think the show is good enough any more... and the only way that they will ever realise that fact is when people stop paying-up and going in.

Subject: Re: opinions of RIAT 2009 2009-07-21, 04:53

Ian, Glad you got back home ok, we enjoyed meeting you.

Quote :: I did not do 'The Macarena' Flaps (Once again , thanks for the invite) and Old Git must have had too much 'Pop' !!! Great to meet you and Mrs Git too by the way

OH yes you did, you just did it sitting down thats all Cheers

i can't believe you think we had too much pop Whistle

how much is it worth not to publish the photo of your eyes on Sunday morning.

not to mention the singing etc etc etc. Secret

Geoff

Subject: IAT 2009-07-21, 05:20

Hi Chaps

I have had the most enjoyable IAT for a few years, I think this is mainly due to the fact that on saturday I didnt go into the show, this is the first time since the IAT started in the early 1970's at Greenham Comman that I have not gone in.

This was main due to the fact that I thought £37 is far to expensive to be treated like a victim, hemed in like sheep, ripped off for food and drink, and stuff parked on the crowd line so you cant see.

I went Thursday, Friday for arrivals paid £13 per day, £15 entry into the field oppersite the main taxi way on saturday, and £20 entry on monday for the departures. Total price £56 for 4 days instead of £37 for one day.

I had a cracking time, and the most enjoyable IAT for sometime no hassel no stress by the muppets on the gate. Here is an example of what Happened on Thursday when leaving IAT car park at the arrivals end:

I took my dad who is disabled and when we went to leave at about 6pm, I have little tent, my camera bag, a little trolly, and my dad. So I said to my dad I will take my camera and trolly back to the disabled car park, which I did bearing in mind it was raining quite heavy by this time, I placed my stuff in the car and went to return to get my dad. I was stopped by a woman member of staff who asked me what I was doing, i said I was going back in to get my dad, and was imformed that after 5pm you cant go back in, I pointed to where my dad was and again I was told that I could not go back in, this stand off went on for a few mins until a different staff memeber came over and asked what was going on, I expalined and they said just go in and get him.

I know that there is no going back in after a set time, but when people can see the situation why cant they use a bit of common sense to sort the problem out instead of being a jobs worth.

viper 01

Moderator Location : In a layby

Sheff wrote:: The other way things could be improved is more fundamental. Clearly, most of the more interesting/exotic aircraft are now confined to the static display. Surely, it ought to be possible to have at least some of these arrive/depart during the actual show, rather than the days before and after it.

As a side note of that I had the discussion with several people over the course of the week about how Riat can justify staging the arrivals over 3 days. Simple answer? So they can make more money. On wednesday there was around 30-40 moves, having been attending since 1993 ive known it alot busier. I really feel they could either manage it in one day - two at a push.

Also I would echo Viper's comments, I was on base wednesday but thursday/friday/sunday I went in to the field opposite the main taxi way. As a result, I too had a better show because of it Big Grin

No idiots pushing in your way (except the occasional crash team member) no real lengthy queues for toilets, great company etc etc.

Im seriously considering no days on base next year, unless some radical changes happen in the show format.

Location : Sheffield Spotter Watch Member : no

As a side note of that I had the discussion with several people over the course of the week about how Riat can justify staging the arrivals over 3 days. Simple answer? So they can make more money.

Well, I have to admit that I've often thought the same thing but I was being charitable by not saying it! To be fair, it's inevitable that some aircraft would have to arrive on the Thursday, but Wednesday does seem to be stretching things somewhat. Having spent lots of time at other shows on arrivals days, it's fair to say that most are able to turn-up on the Friday, with just one or two needing to arrive on a Thursday. My point is that the most interesting/exotic aircraft (what few are left) are almost inevitably doomed to sit in the static park which often makes their presence almost pointless. You may as well be in an aircraft museum. It's a waste both for the spectator (us) and the participant who has made the effort to come to the show. I'm under no illusions that some participants would simply be unable to arrive/depart over the weekend but some could. Likewise, of those that could not, there's absolutely no reason why they cannot start-up and taxy down the runway. Like I said about the Greek F-4, surely everyone would have much rather seen it start-up, taxy down the runway with a burst of power from those lovely old J-79's and taxy back in, instead of just being plonked there amongst the usual junk? RIAT has loads of ramp space so there's no reason why it couldn't happen.

It's not as if ideas like this are too wild to contemplate. Look at the forthcoming Tiger Meet which seems to be developing into a plan for the participating aircraft to fly at an air show! Imagine! RIAT has acres of ramp space so why can't they host a Tiger Meet (or create a similar exercise) and let the participants do their own thing, whilst allowing the spectators to watch? The sad truth of the matter is that IAT simply don't want to bother. Naturally, the current set-up works very well for them with all the tickets getting sold, and enthusiasts coughing-up even more dosh to sit in grandstands and enclosures, and P&V facilities for days on end. In some respects you can't blame them for sticking with the same old formula when they're enjoying a commercial success. In many ways it's our own fault for allowing ourselves to be exploited.

Oh and as for the commentary business, I can't comment on this year's efforts as I wasn't there, but I've always been firmly of the opinion that air show commentaries are always much better when they're silent. I've no problem with items of useful information being announced over a PA system but I don't need to hear some half-wit babbling-on with a list of facts and figures he's reading off a crib sheet. Nor do I want to hear their tales, their family history, or what they think about this or that. Worse still, I don't have any need to have some dubious musical accompanying a flying demonstration. They have their radio broadcast so personally I'd rather they just shut-up! Still, I have to admit that I'd always make an exception for Brendan O'Brien. He's so monumentally, toe-curlingly bad (and funny) , he's actually worth listening to! Laughing

Location : Scotland Spotter Watch Member : No

pikey01 wrote:: As a side note of that I had the discussion with several people over the course of the week about how Riat can justify staging the arrivals over 3 days. Simple answer? So they can make more money. On wednesday there was around 30-40 moves, having been attending since 1993 ive known it alot busier. I really feel they could either manage it in one day - two at a push.

There's more to do than just get the aircraft parked though. If everything turned up on the Friday nothing else would get done as the place would be heaving with taxiing aircraft, I suspect. Also don't forget that aircraft have to do practice displays for the FCC and of course there's the issue of when the aircraft can leave for the show. Quite frankly it's staggering what they manage to put on and pack away in such a short space of time.

Location : Whitley Bay, Newcastle

I decided not to travel from Newcastle because of the weather forecast on Sunday. I just wasn't prepared for a long drive/hotel/ticket cost etc for the day to be spoilt by rain.

Instead I went to Durham Tees Valley to see the reds with my daugther. My daughter had her red arrows flying suit on which got a lot of attention from the team. They handed out some of the sweets/booklets/stickers which really made my daughters day.

Sorry for the bad photo! Only had my cheap camera with me.

opinions of RIAT 2009 - Page 2 DSCF0822

I will focus on Sunderland/East Fortune and Leuchars for the remainder of 2009. Might get to my first RIAT next year.

Subject: Re: opinions of RIAT 2009 2009-07-21, 07:42

[quote="agdickie"][quote="pikey01"]Also don't forget that aircraft have to do practice displays for the FCC and of course there's the issue of when the aircraft quote]

FCC - Fighter Control Commentators 2010 Smile

RIAT will always be a rip off.... no matter what turns up. And with the amount of aircraft they had in this year they could have got everything to arrive on Thursday and Friday morning, leaving Friday afternoon for rehearsals etc.
Going back onto the display being too long, i think it is also.
Out of the many IAT/RIAT's i have been too (since the early 90's) i have always got a bit bored by the end, with the Red Arrows which always did the end/shutting display etc.
By 4pm i'm ready to go home but refuse to do so incase i miss something.

Have you seen the mass exodus at Fairford each year before the end of the show, mainly because no one wants to be stuck in traffic and the remainder is because they are bored silly and out of pocket! (or on one evening refused to listen to the female singer Unsure/Confused

)

Subject: Re: opinions of RIAT 2009 2009-07-21, 07:50

i thought the commentary was good this year actually.

it certainly helped fill the voids and kept us informed as to what was coming next.

and it was accurate as far as i can tell and not full of nonsense talk.

my only gripe would be that it was drowned out by the ruddy fairground during the quite moments when i was more interested to hear what they were saying.

as he's your mate LN strike thingy, you can certainly pass on my thanks for his commentary, and no i don't know him.

Geoff

Subject: Re: opinions of RIAT 2009 2009-07-21, 07:52

Used to make me laugh when they had the Radio roadshows at RIAT. Do they still do this?

Location : nottingham Spotter Watch Member : no

First there was a hundred moans that some of the flying aircraft should be in the static...now its complaints that the static isn`t flown !

Never bl**dy satisfied springs to mind....and on a side note I nearly always agree with Sheff about everything,airshows to Afghanistan but Sheff on RIAT I must say some of your negative comments are a little much from a guy who didn`t go,I do like your devils advocate role but all things considered RIAT was alright,I know we have both seen better as have many on FC but thats because we are old men Unsure/Confused

The event in the long run is no doubt doomed everything that gets the Royal title bestowed on it is always doomed so when IAT became RIAT it was/is only a matter of time....until then dont deprive yourself, next year go,you will enjoy some of it and it will give you some real hands on experience of what to moan about Big Grin

all the best...Gary

Subject: Re: opinions of RIAT 2009 2009-07-21, 07:58

Quote :: Used to make me laugh when they had the Radio roadshows at RIAT. Do they still do this?

No but we were treated to the FABBA girls live on stage Opps

and to top that we had Sarah Greene of Blue Peter and crashed helicopter fame explaining to us how fit the Guinot girls were as they had to raise there legs into the airstream Cheers

Geoff

Subject: Re: opinions of RIAT 2009 2009-07-21, 08:01

Sounds like first class entertainment at a second class airshow Wow