Which base antenna should I buy?

Location : uk Spotter Watch Member : no

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to fighter Control and would really appreciate your help and advice on choosing the right/best? antenna for a base station I am setting up.

As the crow flies my location puts me 10 miles from RAF Marham, 17 miles from RAF Lakenheath, 23 miles from RAF Mildenhall and just 6 miles from the Harrier Strip on STANTA training area, as a result I have plenty of traffic around me to listen to. At this stage I only plan to listen to the VHF & UHF airbands and have been doing so up until now with a Uniden UBC3500XLT using a Watson SMA-881 antenna, both purchased a little over 2 years ago, this is my first and only scanner I have owned. I will continue using the UBC3500XLT at the base station for now but I plan to purchase a dedicated base scanner/receiver in the future with a budget of up to £500 - £600, any suggestions would be gratefully received.

For now my problem is choosing an antenna. For the last 2 weeks I have read books, magazines, researched on the internet and looked through all of the posts on this forums scanning section for some inspiration and have shortlisted the following:

Diamond D-777
http://www.radioworld.co.uk/~radio/catalog/d777-diamond-120300mhz-airband-fixed-station-vertical-p-4093.html?osCsid=0c7c9b7ee15c599c5fb1e0a64ad0e56c

Comet AB-380 VHF/UHF Airband Base Receive Antenna
http://www.radioworld.co.uk/~radio/catalog/comet-ab380-vhfuhf-airband-base-receive-antenna-p-6290.html?osCsid=0c7c9b7ee15c599c5fb1e0a64ad0e56c

Icom AH-8000 multi-purpose discone antenna
http://www.radioworld.co.uk/~radio/catalog/icom-ah8000-discone-receiving-antenna-1003300mhz-p-6227.html?osCsid=0c7c9b7ee15c599c5fb1e0a64ad0e56c

Diamond D-130M super discone antenna
http://www.grove-ent.com/ANT9.html

and finally a combination of the SSE-BASE-128SJ VHF aviation base antenna & SSE-BASE-125SJ UHF aviation base antenna combined with a SSE-DIP2002 AB-EU Diplexer
http://www.ssejim.co.uk/28-vhfairbandant.htm
http://www.ssejim.co.uk/29-uhfairbandant.htm
http://www.ssejim.co.uk/38-dip2002abeu.htm

If anyone has any experience with any of the above antennas or if you would like to suggest an item I haven’t included, I would really appreciate your opinions, any feedback would be gratefully received. For cabling I plan to use either Westflex 103, Ecoflex or Andrew.

My apologies for waffling on, but I figure the more information you have the better.

Many thanks in advance,

Kind Regards

Cookie

Location : Hemel Hempstead, UK Spotter Watch Member : No

I'd personally think the Value VS. Performance ratio is in the favour of the Diamond D-130M Super Discone. It's whatever suits you best in the end of the day... Whether you want the East England equivilant of Goonhilly on your rooftop or not!! Laughing

I'm jealous of your location however... Any houses for sale where you are?! Glare

Subject: Re: Which base antenna should I buy? 2009-07-26, 18:55

its got to be the diamond d-777 the performance i get with mine is amazing considering i live in a dip next too a large wooded area and the north downs

Subject: Which base antenna should i buy? 2009-07-27, 08:54

As i posted quite a few weeks ago,i had quite a bit of trouble in the end with my discone,got weather beaten,ended picking next to nothing up...finally chose a wideband,Watson WBV60 Vertical antenna,makers say it's very good at picking up the weakest of signals,i've found it extremely brilliant,plus it doesn't draw too much attention off the neighbours!!.

Location : uk Spotter Watch Member : no

Thanks for the advice so far. I must admit I'm not keen on using a discone even though they are meant to provide better coverage, I don't want my roof to become a popular destination for pigeons nor do I want the extra attention from the neighbours...

lowlevel, thanks for telling me about the Watson WBV-60 wideband vertical antenna, good to know that it works well for you, as for the price £34.95, that's excellent value for money and it has the "N type" connector.

With the Diamond D-777 do any of you experience any problems with frequencies above 300MHz? There are 2 reasons I ask this. First is that it's resonance is rated up to 300MHz, I have a lot of frequencies stored above 300MHz and am concerned that it will struggle to work efficiently, or even at all for the 300MHz - 400MHz of the UHF military band, secondly, it comes with a SO239 connector also known as a UHF connector, although, and I quote from Wikipedia "UHF connectors are generally usable through what is now known as the VHF and HF frequencies and can handle RF power levels over one kilowatt. Despite the name it is rarely used for actual UHF frequencies as they don't work well above 300 MHz." For a dedicated airband VHF/UHF antenna I find both of these points a bit contradictory to what it claims it can actually do!

cookie

Location : West Midlands Spotter Watch Member : No

Hi
Firstly all vertical antenna's are resonant at a specific frequency unlike the broadband discones and log periodics types.
The d777 will give peak gain at 300 Mhz +/-9Mhz ie 291 - 309Mhz and 120Mhz +/- 4Mhz ie 116 - 124Mhz, all approximations.
The frequencies above and below 300Mhz and 120Mhz will still be received although not at optimum signal strength. This is broadly true of all non broadband types. That said, I believe that you will not do better than using a D777. What is more important in maximising the received signals is :
1. Siting the antenna outside and at the maximum practical height above ground.
2. Using the best low loss co-ax cable available eg westflex.
The PL 259 is not recommended for UHF applications but in practice and your application in particular, it will not be a problem.

Rgds

Gazza

Location : uk Spotter Watch Member : no

Ok, with the advice I have received so far it is looking like the Diamond D-777 is a solid performer, however, I am also drawn to the SSEJIM products. I think it's gonna be a show down between these 2 !!! The only concern I have with the SSEJIM product is that the two separate antennas need to be mounted 8 ft apart on a horizontal bar to work effectively, it will look HUGE up at any sort of height.

352SOG - What height is your aerial mounted at?

We live in a tiny bungalow so my wife (THE BOSS) has said there is no room in the bungalow to set the scanner up, so I've set up in my garage. We're surrounded by bungalows except for the opposite side of the road where there are a couple of semi's. I've managed to get hold of a 21 ft scaffold pole which I intend to use for a mast, the trouble is with all the bungalows around me it looked ridiculous up that high so I am wondering how much shorter I can get away with making it? There may be another problem by shortening the height, the mast install is also hindered by a 6m high Rowan tree only 6 ft away from the garage which I am sure will do it's best to shield reception, particularly when it's wet...

2BSURE - Thanks for the info, it's helped me to decide that the D-777 is probably the strongest contender along with the SSEJIM kit I've found.

Any more advice that anyone can offer on this will be much appreciated.

Kind Regards

cookie

Location : West Midlands Spotter Watch Member : No

ok I did say as high as is practical so you must decide. A further point I did not mention is the height above sea level where you are. If you are not sure use Google earth to check. If you are close to sea level then you are going to be very restricted at VHF / UHF.The tree may not be a major problem especially during the winter months when it will be leafless.
Whatever you decide to do, it will be an improvement with an outdoor antenna and good low loss co-ax.

Good luck

Location : uk Spotter Watch Member : no

2BSURE

63m Above Sea Level - I am in elevated position, I won't go so far as calling it a hill as there aren't many of them in Norfolk... The land around me is featureless; no woods, no tall buildings etc. The closest bit of higher ground to me would be STANTA training area. I guess the best thing I can do now is get an antenna up, use Westflex 103, and see what happens. Fingers crossed.

cookie

Subject: Re: Which base antenna should I buy? 2009-07-29, 03:42

cookie wrote:: 63m Above Sea Level - I am in elevated position, I won't go so far as calling it a hill as there aren't many of them in Norfolk... The land around me is featureless; no woods, no tall buildings etc. The closest bit of higher ground to me would be STANTA training area. I guess the best thing I can do now is get an antenna up, use Westflex 103, and see what happens. Fingers crossed.

cookie

Sounds good. I'll be interested in the results.
.

Subject: Which base antenna should i buy? 2009-07-29, 05:12

Before i forget...when putting up your antenna outside,buy some self-amalgamating rubber tape,wrap it around,where connector joins antenna..keeps out water/condensation.

Location : uk Spotter Watch Member : no

Well, in my typical way of doing things, I have chosen something completely different and haven't gone for any of the above. Whilst thumbing through radiouser magazine I found a company called Moonraker who were advertising their own airband antenna, the AR-50, claiming up to 7dB gain, for £59.95, so a bit cheaper than the D-777. After giving them a call and having a chat with Justin, one of the staff there, who was very helpful and very patient (given my limited knowledge of the subject) offered a deal including a length of Westflex103 cable with connections soldered both ends and various other bits n bobs. It's a done job, I'm picking the gear up on Monday.

As for the mast (thats changed to....), it's finished height will now be 28 ft plus the antenna. I'm adding an 8 ft pole onto the end of the scaffold pole, the tree has had a bit of a haircut (about a 1.5m) and the whole things been moved closer to the tree so all you should see is a bit of mast and antenna poking out of the top.

I should have it all up and running on Tuesday, and I look forward to reporting it's performance to you all.

Regards

cookie

p.s. lowlevel, I will be collecting some amalgamating tape on Monday with the antenna, had read about it a while back but then forgot, thanks for reminding me

Location : West Midlands Spotter Watch Member : No

Sounds very good. Let us know how it performs.

Gazza

Subject: Which Antenna? 2009-08-02, 13:18

cookie wrote:: Well, in my typical way of doing things, I have chosen something completely different and haven't gone for any of the above. Whilst thumbing through radiouser magazine I found a company called Moonraker who were advertising their own airband antenna, the AR-50, claiming up to 7dB gain, for £59.95, so a bit cheaper than the D-777. After giving them a call and having a chat with Justin, one of the staff there, who was very helpful and very patient (given my limited knowledge of the subject) offered a deal including a length of Westflex103 cable with connections soldered both ends and various other bits n bobs. It's a done job, I'm picking the gear up on Monday.

As for the mast (thats changed to....), it's finished height will now be 28 ft plus the antenna. I'm adding an 8 ft pole onto the end of the scaffold pole, the tree has had a bit of a haircut (about a 1.5m) and the whole things been moved closer to the tree so all you should see is a bit of mast and antenna poking out of the top.

I should have it all up and running on Tuesday, and I look forward to reporting it's performance to you all.

Regards

cookie

p.s. lowlevel, I will be collecting some amalgamating tape on Monday with the antenna, had read about it a while back but then forgot, thanks for reminding me

..No problem..good luck with the antenna project..regards Lowlevel (Tim)

Location : uk Spotter Watch Member : no

The antenna is up!!! Clap

At last, I finally get to hear two-way conversations at home Thumbs Up

Picked the Monnraker AR-50 up on Monday. Having never owned a base antenna I have nothing to compare it to but after a couple of days using it I think I should be pretty pleased. The build quality is very good, however I have modified it slightly; an alloy tube is attached to the bottom of the antenna (this covers the SO239 connector and is where the clamps attach it to the mast), this only had one fixing hole connecting it to the antenna base and I found it had a bit of play, probably nothing to worry about but was easily cured, I drilled and tapped 2 more holes so it locked the tube to the antenna base and eliminated the play, I also added a bead of clear silicone around the antenna base where the fibreglass tube joins to help prevent any water ingress, again probably not necessary but put any concerns I had to rest. I used the amalgamating tape around the connector and also where the alloy tube joins the antenna base.

Performance. As I said at the beginning, I have nothing to compare it to but given the distances I quoted in my first post of this thread

cookie wrote:: As the crow flies my location puts me 10 miles from RAF Marham, 17 miles from RAF Lakenheath, 23 miles from RAF Mildenhall and just 6 miles from the Harrier Strip on STANTA training area

I can report the following using a Uniden UBC3500XLT with the squelch set to 01 and "ATT" in the off position on all frequencies:

Marham comms from the ground are all coming in showing 4/5 bars signal strength (5 bars = maximum strength) with the exception of one of the approach frequencies (233.075) which only manages 1 bar, the radar frequencies are 2 bars.

I can hear both Lakenheath and Mildenhall ground comms quite clearly with the signal strength anywhere between 0(zero) bars and 2 bars, there is quite a bit more static in the background though, the signal strength has fluctuated between these values, I'm guessing this may be due to the weather/atmospherics? Please feel free to correct me Confused

As for anything in the air, the signals are booming in. Without the AC giving it's position it's difficult to range it but I'm hearing AC calling up Mildenhall approach for 11 & 29 showing 4/5 bars signal strength, and I can hear Typhoons calling up Coningsby approach showing 3 bars. Most of the AC comms are 4/5 bars signal strength.

I don't know if there is anything I can do to improve the quality/strength of the ground signals from both Lakenheath and Mildenhall or if I should be satisfied with what I am getting? The top of the antenna is 32 ft off the deck and I am using Westflex103.

I now have the laborious task of reprogramming my scanner, I have BcTool but no PC cable Shock

I may need some help with some ATCC frequencies that are useful (London Mil etc.) if I get stuck with this I might post another thread.

Thanks for taking the time to look, and as always any further advice/info is always greatly appreciated.

cookie

Location : West Midlands Spotter Watch Member : No

Thanks for the update. Pleased that your happy with your new antenna. I did contact both Moonraker and Diamond antenna's to clarify a couple of points and discovered that the D777 design is significantly different to the AR-50. Would not say one is better than the other as it really all comes down to a practical comparative test, which due to cost few of us are able to make. Other than spending mega bucks on an antenna farm I think you have to be content with what you now have assuming all of your w105 connections have been correctly made. Some may recommend masthead pre amps but I am unconvinced as to the overall improvement you would get, if any and and a pre amp would cause signal overloading on the strong airborne signals.
From what you have said, in your location, and with a full compliment of relevant London Mil frequencies installed, I would guess that you will receive more quality signals than your average mil air listener, myself included.
So happy listening!

Gazza