Acronyms - A plea

Subject: Acronyms - A plea 2009-06-16, 06:35

I have read somewhere on these forums that for the sake of clarity acroynyms ought to be accompanied by their 'real world' origins. Can I, as a recent rejoiner to the hobby, ask that when they are used this is the case.
Also that the full name of a station be stated or their ICAO designation if used be identified.
Most 'codes' were invented for use in transmissions of messages in morse code (remember that Confused

) and light signals, to save operators time and increase the speed at which it was sent/received

I have had trouble understanding some posts are they are solely constructed in jargon in the form of initials and acronyms, that as a mere civvy I havn't got a clue what they mean. Crying

For instance - I realise that QRA means quick reaction alert, but in an allied hobby such as scanning and radio use it means 'The name of my station is......' or 'my call sign is.........' Thats where is was first used. (Radio Q codes). Being interested in both hobbies and new to one, thats just one example.
I'm only just getting the hang of text speak, which is becoming the new 'english?' Clap

Its alright if you have been at this a while. I have been involved in comms for a number of years and find now that there are several versions of the orginal acronyms, as organisations take them for their own use without any research into the possibility of original duplicates being in exsistance.

As an aside if you want to learn a new language enitely composed of acronyms, then may I suggest you get a job with the NHS (National Health Service)

Im sorry to say that it all goes straight over my head.

Cheers
Thumbs Up

Subject: Re: Acronyms - A plea 2009-06-16, 06:40

As an addition to this, this section of FC is worthy of note too http://fightercontrol.forumotion.com/aviation-resource-and-jargon-centre-arjc-f14/

Thanks to Goose and all the other contributers that make FC an excellant source of information and knowledge

Rev Stu

Location : lincolnshire Spotter Watch Member : no

thebluebeard wrote:: their ICAO designation

Whats an ICAO ????

Subject: Re: Acronyms - A plea 2009-06-16, 06:44

lblake wrote:

thebluebeard wrote:: their ICAO designation

Whats an ICAO ????

International Civil Aviation Organisation.

Isn't Google wonderful ! Cheers

Subject: Re: Acronyms - A plea 2009-06-16, 06:44

http://www.icao.int/

Courtesy of Google

HTH Stu

Location : Colchester

thebluebeard wrote:: Stuff...

I do agree with you, there are lots on here that go over my head, spoken (sorry, written) by people who are ex-forces, or have been in the hobby a long time, for these people, because they know what they are saying, it is normal.

Google helps a lot, as does looking at the jargon buster linked above.

But one thing I did notice, is that you ask for people to make it simpler for you, yet underneath your avatar, it says: 'Location: 19kms 157 Radial EGXD (Cby)' Now, I'm guessing that by posting 'EGXD (Cby)' you live near Coningsby, I have no idea what 19kms is, as I am English, but may I ask what 157 Radial means, as that has gone right over my head?

Subject: Re: Acronyms - A plea 2009-06-16, 08:19

157 radial means 157 degrees on the compass.

Location : Colchester

Thank you.

Subject: Re: Acronyms - A plea 2009-06-16, 08:39

Ok, I hold my hands up, you got me Embarassed

.

I may be slightly guilty of the use of abbreviations, but in my defence they are are usually commonly known and in general use. kms is kilometers for instance. Acronyms are usually specifically related to particular and often specialised fields that only involve a small number of individuals. Like being an enthusiast in military aircraft for instance. They may have their 'code' speak that anyone outside does not need to understand.

But now hundreds of people have different degrees of interest and involement. If groups have no concern for those individuals, then contact with them is usually a 'closed shop'.

Regrettably however the general public with even the slightest interest in any subject, has access to a huge amount of information via the WWW (world wide web). I was always taught that if you intended to use abbreviations or acronyms, it was policy to give the full title with a bracketted explanation next to it, the first time it was used, in text for reference, should the meaning escape you later.

If you would like to see, for instance, how many definitions there are in the world for say QRA - just google a dictionary or acronym site.

Cheers

Location : N E Jockistan Spotter Watch Member : No

Acronyms and abbreviations are a fact of life these days, and are especially unavoidable in the area of our common interest, i.e. Military Aviation.

There is however a series which I think are irrelevant to our hobby and that is ICAO airfield codes. They are by definition civil, and I see no need to use them in post titles or the body of a post for that matter, when many members/readers myself included don't know or use them. To give an example, surely it's easier to say Lossiemouth which everyone knows, or the widely used abbreviation of Lossie which has been on the go for over seventy years, rather than EGQS which I had to look up.

I'll duck back below the parapet to await a volley of bricks and bottles from the ICAO code obsessives. Angel

Location : essex Spotter Watch Member : No

See your point Rob, but on the scanner, military crew do use the ICAO to identify their landing airfield sometimes, so is still relevant to people who listen.
Dave

Location : N E Jockistan Spotter Watch Member : No

I don't doubt that, but surely it's not necessary for posting.

Subject: Re: Acronyms - A plea 2009-06-16, 11:03

Members must not use 4-letter airfield codes in their posts,this has been brought-up many times in the past,if you read a post where one has been used then bring it to a staff-members attention please.

It's perfectly acceptable under an avatar though !

Thanks.

Subject: Re: Acronyms - A plea 2009-06-16, 11:04

Acronyms and abbreviations have their place. All my plea was - Please explain them if they are used or use the full word or phrase instead, please.

Ta
Cheers

Subject: Re: Acronyms - A plea 2009-06-16, 11:22

Quote :: I'm guessing that by posting 'EGXD (Cby)' you live near Coningsby

Might not be the case as Coningsby is EGXC! EGXD is Dishforth in Yorkshire.

S

(ICAO Spotter!)

Subject: Re: Acronyms - A plea 2009-06-16, 12:36

Quote :: I'm guessing that by posting 'EGXD (Cby)' you live near Coningsby

Oh and the correct abbreviation for Coningsby is CGY - this is what the TACAN codes.

S

Sorry thebluebeard not having a go at you though it might feel like it.

Subject: Re: Acronyms - A plea 2009-06-16, 12:53

My abbreviation of Cby was designed to be easily identifiable to those of us who neither know or care what a 'TACAN' might be.

Which illustrates my original point perfectly.

At this point I rest my case.
Enough already Razz

TTFN

Admin Location : Bristol, UK

thebluebeard wrote:: My abbreviation of Cby was designed to be easily identifiable to those of us who neither know or care what a 'TACAN' might be. At this point I rest my case. Enough already

TTFN

But why not just type Coningsby? Maybe not everyone would be able to work out CBY is Coningsby and you've certainly made it even more confusing by not using an identifier that could be easily 'Googled' (Like IATA, ICAO or TACAN codes).

I can personally understand it when someone is writing the same thing several times so it's easier and quicker to use IATA codes or acronyms, which I know I often use FFD for Fairford and may have done it once or twice in the Fairford section.

Secondly, as I've said above these acronyms are used for two reasons - they're quick and easy; which makes them very handy when in a rush to type out a post. If people were to use the acronym and then type out what that acronym means, it will take twice as long and defeat the entire point?

I agree, for photo posts there is no need what so ever to use ICAO codes. As someone else has said, we do have the Jargon Buster which will help these new people learn.

Mike

Admin Location : Abu Dhabi

Time for some useless trivia while we are on the subject of ICAO codes....

My place of work is an anagram of my surname Secret

Now wheres that tumbleweed smiley... Big Grin

Location : N E Jockistan Spotter Watch Member : No

or

or maybe

Subject: Re: Acronyms - A plea 2009-06-16, 14:57

The phrase "Sorry I spoke" comes to mind.............................................. Opps

Sorry to have bothered everyone, I'll keep my requests and suggestions to myself methinks. As well as the BINGO updates - just incase I record anything else incorrectly............................... Secret

Admin Location : Bristol, UK

thebluebeard wrote:: The phrase "Sorry I spoke" comes to mind..............................................
Sorry to have bothered everyone, I'll keep my requests and suggestions to myself methinks.

You've not bothered anyone, you have your opinion, others have theirs, I'm sure people agree with yours and some people agree with others.

FC are always welcome to any requests or suggestions Smile

Mike

Admin Location : Abu Dhabi

You havent bothered anyone, people have their own opinions on various subjects, and there will always be a kazillion ways of answering plea's like this.

Please dont feel hard done to.

As regards Radio Q codes and Z codes for that matter, I was a Radio Operator in the RN, before going down the Air Traffic route, so understand where your coming from.ZBM2 was always a favourite..

If only I was QRM...wheres the wife!

anyway QRU ATT AR

Dunk

Subject: Re: Acronyms - A plea 2009-06-16, 15:27

ZBK2
73's
QRT

Location : Aberdeen Spotter Watch Member : No

Most acronyms don't really bother me but the use of the ICAO codes in posts does, as posts are supposed to reflect how one would hold a conversation who in their right mind says "I'm flying on holiday from EGPD" ?

If you are going to use them it would be really helpful to mention the real world name of the location.

Ian